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	<title>Comments on: Inspiration and Infallibility</title>
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	<description>Reformation meets Rome</description>
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		<title>By: Tim A. Troutman</title>
		<link>http://www.calledtocommunion.com/2009/07/infallibility-and-inspiration/comment-page-1/#comment-1570</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim A. Troutman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jul 2009 03:09:22 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Devin - Good point.  We take revelation as it comes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Devin &#8211; Good point.  We take revelation as it comes.</p>
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		<title>By: Devin Rose</title>
		<link>http://www.calledtocommunion.com/2009/07/infallibility-and-inspiration/comment-page-1/#comment-1567</link>
		<dc:creator>Devin Rose</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 21:28:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calledtocommunion.com/?p=1741#comment-1567</guid>
		<description>Tom wrote: &lt;i&gt;&quot;Is it right to say that our infallible Scripture is capable of no better formulation?  As one who waxes Catholic and wanes Reformed, I’ve often been frustrated that Scripture wasn’t just a teensey bit clearer on the more Catholic-distinctive teachings.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

In some sense, the Scriptures would have been &quot;better&quot; formulated as a catechism which spelled out explicitly each and every important doctrine.   For instance, Baptism does X, Y, and Z but does not do A, B, and C.  Instead we get passages like &quot;no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit&quot; which earnest Christians can interpret differently.

Wouldn&#039;t it have been a &quot;better&quot; formulation--not just for Catholic-distinctive teachings but for every teaching--to have things made explicit?  For instance, Jesus says, &quot;The Father is greater than I&quot; (John 14:28) which played right into the hands of people like Arius in the 4th century; why didn&#039;t Jesus follow-up by saying: &quot;But the Father and I are one in being with each other, consubstantial, and by the way, so is the Holy Spirit, who is also God, and who proceeds from both the Father and I&quot;?

Obviously I do not claim that the Holy Spirit could have done a &quot;better&quot; job of inspiring Scripture--as Michael said above, He did what He did and accomplished what He wanted to through it.  But to me, it demonstrates the need for &quot;something else&quot;, a complement to the Scriptures if you will, by which we could know what is true and what is false.  You know that, as a Catholic, I believe these &quot;complements&quot; are the full apostolic Tradition with the Magisterium faithfully interpreting them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom wrote: <i>&#8220;Is it right to say that our infallible Scripture is capable of no better formulation?  As one who waxes Catholic and wanes Reformed, I’ve often been frustrated that Scripture wasn’t just a teensey bit clearer on the more Catholic-distinctive teachings.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>In some sense, the Scriptures would have been &#8220;better&#8221; formulated as a catechism which spelled out explicitly each and every important doctrine.   For instance, Baptism does X, Y, and Z but does not do A, B, and C.  Instead we get passages like &#8220;no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit&#8221; which earnest Christians can interpret differently.</p>
<p>Wouldn&#8217;t it have been a &#8220;better&#8221; formulation&#8211;not just for Catholic-distinctive teachings but for every teaching&#8211;to have things made explicit?  For instance, Jesus says, &#8220;The Father is greater than I&#8221; (John 14:28) which played right into the hands of people like Arius in the 4th century; why didn&#8217;t Jesus follow-up by saying: &#8220;But the Father and I are one in being with each other, consubstantial, and by the way, so is the Holy Spirit, who is also God, and who proceeds from both the Father and I&#8221;?</p>
<p>Obviously I do not claim that the Holy Spirit could have done a &#8220;better&#8221; job of inspiring Scripture&#8211;as Michael said above, He did what He did and accomplished what He wanted to through it.  But to me, it demonstrates the need for &#8220;something else&#8221;, a complement to the Scriptures if you will, by which we could know what is true and what is false.  You know that, as a Catholic, I believe these &#8220;complements&#8221; are the full apostolic Tradition with the Magisterium faithfully interpreting them.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Liccione</title>
		<link>http://www.calledtocommunion.com/2009/07/infallibility-and-inspiration/comment-page-1/#comment-1565</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Liccione</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 17:24:18 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Tom:

Scripture and the Magisterium are quite different. Scripture and Tradition together transmit to us the full material content of the deposit of faith, whereas the Magisterium is only the &quot;authentic&quot; interpreter thereof. Thus the Magisterium is not on the same level as Scripture or Tradition, but serves them by securing their proper interpretation by the faithful.

As to your question: &quot;[I]s it right to say that our infallible Scripture is capable of no better formulation?&quot;, I&#039;d answer by invoking a distinction. Scripture is &quot;perfect&quot; inasmuch as, given that  the Holy Spirit is its primary author, it conveys all and only the truth that the Holy Spirit wills to convey by means of it.  But Scripture is not perfect in the sense that it makes everything perfectly clear by itself. It can be properly understood and interpreted only together with Tradition and the Magisterium. That&#039;s why Vatican II said that none of the three can stand without the others.

Best,
Mike</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom:</p>
<p>Scripture and the Magisterium are quite different. Scripture and Tradition together transmit to us the full material content of the deposit of faith, whereas the Magisterium is only the &#8220;authentic&#8221; interpreter thereof. Thus the Magisterium is not on the same level as Scripture or Tradition, but serves them by securing their proper interpretation by the faithful.</p>
<p>As to your question: &#8220;[I]s it right to say that our infallible Scripture is capable of no better formulation?&#8221;, I&#8217;d answer by invoking a distinction. Scripture is &#8220;perfect&#8221; inasmuch as, given that  the Holy Spirit is its primary author, it conveys all and only the truth that the Holy Spirit wills to convey by means of it.  But Scripture is not perfect in the sense that it makes everything perfectly clear by itself. It can be properly understood and interpreted only together with Tradition and the Magisterium. That&#8217;s why Vatican II said that none of the three can stand without the others.</p>
<p>Best,<br />
Mike</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Preslar</title>
		<link>http://www.calledtocommunion.com/2009/07/infallibility-and-inspiration/comment-page-1/#comment-1551</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Preslar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 05:18:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calledtocommunion.com/?p=1741#comment-1551</guid>
		<description>Tom:

&lt;em&gt;Is it right to say that our infallible Scripture is capable of no better formulation?&lt;/em&gt;

I think that it is indeed right to say that. The law of the Lord is perfect. Every word of Scripture pertains to Jesus Christ, the Word. If we struggle to perceive the fullness of the revelation of Christ Jesus  in the inspired, written word, the fault lies with us. 

As individuals, our tendency is to fall away from the perfection of the inspired word into confusion and / or error. This is why we must read Sacred Scripture within the sacred community of the Church, which is the Body of Christ, which has the mind of Christ, and knows the things of Christ intuitively, the way the spirit of a man knows the things of a man.

This is why the Church, in her infallible formulations of Christian doctrine, is not completely dependent upon discursive reasoning from the letter of Sacred Scripture. She has privileged access to the subject of Sacred Scripture. As a word of testimony, I can say that reading the Bible with the Church is the most wonderful experience in the world, with the exception of receiving absolution and a good Communion.

I hope that Michael and others will also address your question.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom:</p>
<p><em>Is it right to say that our infallible Scripture is capable of no better formulation?</em></p>
<p>I think that it is indeed right to say that. The law of the Lord is perfect. Every word of Scripture pertains to Jesus Christ, the Word. If we struggle to perceive the fullness of the revelation of Christ Jesus  in the inspired, written word, the fault lies with us. </p>
<p>As individuals, our tendency is to fall away from the perfection of the inspired word into confusion and / or error. This is why we must read Sacred Scripture within the sacred community of the Church, which is the Body of Christ, which has the mind of Christ, and knows the things of Christ intuitively, the way the spirit of a man knows the things of a man.</p>
<p>This is why the Church, in her infallible formulations of Christian doctrine, is not completely dependent upon discursive reasoning from the letter of Sacred Scripture. She has privileged access to the subject of Sacred Scripture. As a word of testimony, I can say that reading the Bible with the Church is the most wonderful experience in the world, with the exception of receiving absolution and a good Communion.</p>
<p>I hope that Michael and others will also address your question.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Brown</title>
		<link>http://www.calledtocommunion.com/2009/07/infallibility-and-inspiration/comment-page-1/#comment-1549</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Brown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 23:30:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calledtocommunion.com/?p=1741#comment-1549</guid>
		<description>Dear Michael,

Thanks for the excellent and helpful comment.  I wonder if you could help me with one part.

You said: &quot;What is so taught [that is, DMI] might be defective in various other ways: it could be incomplete, inopportune, or capable of better formulation.&quot;  By these characteristics, do you mean to make distinctions between DMI and Sacred Scripture?  I had never thought of the question until now, but is it right to say that our infallible Scripture is capable of no better formulation?  As one who waxes Catholic and wanes Reformed, I&#039;ve often been frustrated that Scripture wasn&#039;t just a teensey bit clearer on the more Catholic-distinctive teachings. 

Looking forward to a response if you have the opportunity.

Peace in Christ,
Tom</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Michael,</p>
<p>Thanks for the excellent and helpful comment.  I wonder if you could help me with one part.</p>
<p>You said: &#8220;What is so taught [that is, DMI] might be defective in various other ways: it could be incomplete, inopportune, or capable of better formulation.&#8221;  By these characteristics, do you mean to make distinctions between DMI and Sacred Scripture?  I had never thought of the question until now, but is it right to say that our infallible Scripture is capable of no better formulation?  As one who waxes Catholic and wanes Reformed, I&#8217;ve often been frustrated that Scripture wasn&#8217;t just a teensey bit clearer on the more Catholic-distinctive teachings. </p>
<p>Looking forward to a response if you have the opportunity.</p>
<p>Peace in Christ,<br />
Tom</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Preslar</title>
		<link>http://www.calledtocommunion.com/2009/07/infallibility-and-inspiration/comment-page-1/#comment-1543</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Preslar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 21:07:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calledtocommunion.com/?p=1741#comment-1543</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;The Church has never taught that the Holy Spirit is the primary author of Magisterial documents, as he is of the Bible.&lt;/em&gt;

Mike, this observation is helpful. I had thought of trying to capture the difference between the two activities of the Spirit in terms of active (inspiration) and preventive (infallibility).

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>The Church has never taught that the Holy Spirit is the primary author of Magisterial documents, as he is of the Bible.</em></p>
<p>Mike, this observation is helpful. I had thought of trying to capture the difference between the two activities of the Spirit in terms of active (inspiration) and preventive (infallibility).</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Liccione</title>
		<link>http://www.calledtocommunion.com/2009/07/infallibility-and-inspiration/comment-page-1/#comment-1537</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Liccione</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 14:56:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.calledtocommunion.com/?p=1741#comment-1537</guid>
		<description>Andrew:

Two points need emphasis  here. First, the doctrine of the Magisterium&#039;s infallibility (DMI) does not mean that anything the Magisterium says is divinely inspired. The Church has never taught that the Holy Spirit is the primary author of Magisterial documents, as he is of the Bible.  DMI means that when teaching something definitively, with its full authority binding the Church, the Magisterium is protected by the Holy Spirit from teaching a falsehood.  What is so taught might be defective in various other ways: it could be incomplete, inopportune, or capable of better formulation. But its being infallibly taught means  that we can be sure it is true. It is also and thus &quot;irreformable,&quot; which means that all subsequent formulations must be logically compatible with what it says.

Second, in &lt;i&gt;Dei Verbum&lt;/i&gt; §10, Vatican II said: 

&lt;blockquote&gt;the task of authentically interpreting the word of God, whether written or handed on, (8) has been entrusted exclusively to the living teaching office of the Church, (9) whose authority is exercised in the name of Jesus Christ. This teaching office is not above the word of God, but serves it, teaching only what has been handed on, listening to it devoutly, guarding it scrupulously and explaining it faithfully in accord with a divine commission and with the help of the Holy Spirit, it draws from this one deposit of faith everything which it presents for belief as divinely revealed.

It is clear, therefore, that sacred tradition, Sacred Scripture and the teaching authority of the Church, in accord with God&#039;s most wise design, are so linked and joined together that one cannot stand without the others, and that all together and each in its own way under the action of the one Holy Spirit contribute effectively to the salvation of souls. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

Unlike Scripture, to which &quot;inspiration&quot; applies, the Magisterium is not a &lt;i&gt;fontis&lt;/i&gt; of divine revelation. It is only the &quot;authentic interpreter&quot; thereof. Given DMI, it follows that what&#039;s &quot;infallible&quot; are the Magisterium&#039;s definitive interpretations of revelation.  As I&#039;ve implied, that is only a negative constraint; but it is essential to the transmission of divine revelation, of which Scripture and Tradition are the two primary means.

Best,
Mike</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew:</p>
<p>Two points need emphasis  here. First, the doctrine of the Magisterium&#8217;s infallibility (DMI) does not mean that anything the Magisterium says is divinely inspired. The Church has never taught that the Holy Spirit is the primary author of Magisterial documents, as he is of the Bible.  DMI means that when teaching something definitively, with its full authority binding the Church, the Magisterium is protected by the Holy Spirit from teaching a falsehood.  What is so taught might be defective in various other ways: it could be incomplete, inopportune, or capable of better formulation. But its being infallibly taught means  that we can be sure it is true. It is also and thus &#8220;irreformable,&#8221; which means that all subsequent formulations must be logically compatible with what it says.</p>
<p>Second, in <i>Dei Verbum</i> §10, Vatican II said: </p>
<blockquote><p>the task of authentically interpreting the word of God, whether written or handed on, (8) has been entrusted exclusively to the living teaching office of the Church, (9) whose authority is exercised in the name of Jesus Christ. This teaching office is not above the word of God, but serves it, teaching only what has been handed on, listening to it devoutly, guarding it scrupulously and explaining it faithfully in accord with a divine commission and with the help of the Holy Spirit, it draws from this one deposit of faith everything which it presents for belief as divinely revealed.</p>
<p>It is clear, therefore, that sacred tradition, Sacred Scripture and the teaching authority of the Church, in accord with God&#8217;s most wise design, are so linked and joined together that one cannot stand without the others, and that all together and each in its own way under the action of the one Holy Spirit contribute effectively to the salvation of souls. </p></blockquote>
<p>Unlike Scripture, to which &#8220;inspiration&#8221; applies, the Magisterium is not a <i>fontis</i> of divine revelation. It is only the &#8220;authentic interpreter&#8221; thereof. Given DMI, it follows that what&#8217;s &#8220;infallible&#8221; are the Magisterium&#8217;s definitive interpretations of revelation.  As I&#8217;ve implied, that is only a negative constraint; but it is essential to the transmission of divine revelation, of which Scripture and Tradition are the two primary means.</p>
<p>Best,<br />
Mike</p>
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