You wrote concerning Luthers view that “Some people, such as Augustine, were Christians before the Reformation, because even though they denied the Gospel in what they wrote, they did not really believe the things they wrote.” That was always a huge problem for me when I was protestant. Though I was always told we are not justified by believing in justification by faith alone, the problem to me seemed to be that if one did not believe in justification by faith alone then they were not trusting in Christ alone and as a result could not be justified by faith alone. The protestants would have to say that one can be justified by faith alone even when a person is not trusting in Christ alone. BTW, I know that Catholics trust in Christ alone in the sense that it is all because of the merit of Christ. But from a protestant perspective this raises some serious issues about justification because it implies that one can be justified all the while not trusting in Christ alone.

Another serious problem was that I couldn’t find Luther’s view of justification prior to Luther. Sure I found a few quotes by people like Hilary who used the words “faith alone” but it was in the context of coming to Christ, and it was not a dead faith. I found Luthers comment that “Augustine wrote nothing to the purpose concerning faith … ” laughable. Was Luther not aware Augstine wrote a book entitled On Faith and Works explicitely refuting a faith alone view?

Interesting thought here. I think you’re right to perceive a tension between (on the one hand) the claim that this central doctrine is perspicuous in some straightforward sense and (on the other) that it is hard to find people prior to Luther who were expounding it in quite the same way. One way to retain a Lutheran posture here, as you indicate, is to claim that whereas it really was perspicuous enough for all to see, nevertheless the fathers and doctors et al. prior to Luther chose not to see it, substituting something else for it so as either to intentionally pervert the Gospel or because they were suppressing the truth in unrighteousness, etc.

Speaking personally I find it hard to accept that this would have happened on such a vast scale, from the fathers (at least from St Augustine) onward; but I suppose it is a position one could adopt if one’s major concern is to hold fast to Luther’s formulation (or some permutation of it) irrespective of the apparent consequences. I also think that most thoughtful Reformed Christians do not wish to embrace this conclusion, but would rather want to challenge the assumption that historical forerunners of Luther’s formulation are not in evidence. That is probably what I would try with all might to do, chalking the nonLutheran versions of justification up to imprecision, confusion brought about by an intrusive philosophical orientation, or some such.

Best,

Neal

I am very happy to hear from you again, and most thankful that you have shared these links with us. It may please you to know that, although I had written an earlier post on my own personal blog on this topic, substantially equivalent to the one you’ve just read, I decided to “repost” a slightly revised version of it on this site only after having come across the first post/thread that you’ve linked for us above. I enjoy reading your work very much and hope you feel welcome to contribute liberally here.

With Respect,

Neal

I have not been to CtC for quite sometime, but interestingly enough, following a trail of links from THIS THREAD, I ended up HERE, wherein CtC is mentioned and linked to—it is nice to be back…

I first came across Heckel’s outstanding essay back in April, 2008 while engaged in studies concerning the doctrine of justification. I created and posted a thread (An Evangelical Critique of R.C. Sproul’s “Faith Alone”), that linked to and explored some of the issues raised by Heckel.

It was also during this same period that I read Eric W. Gritsch’s essay, “The Origins of the Lutheran Teaching on Justification” (in Justification by Faith: Lutherans and Catholics in Dialogue VII ), and he suggested the phrase, “justification by faith alone is ‘the article upon which the church stands or falls (articulus stantis et cadentis ecclesiae)’”, often erroneously attributed to Martin Luther, was actually coined in the early 18th century (1718) by one Valentin E. Löscher. (I created another THREAD to share Gritsch’s research.)

But almost a year later, I became aware of some information that attributed the first use of the phrase to Johann Heinrich Alsted, an early 17th century Reformed theologian, and once again shared the information via THIS THREAD.

And lastly, thanks to Taylor Marshall’s blog post that you linked to in your footnotes, I started the “Calvin: on the visible church and apostasy” – part 1, part 2, and part 3.

Anyway, enjoyed your post, and thought I would share some of the research I have done in this area.

Grace and peace,

David

(Another PS!)

I just realized I didn’t respond to this: I’ll want to make sure we are talking about sovereignty only as it relates to salvation, you know *what does God do* and *what does man do*. I understand why you are thinking of “sovereignty” (or the question of divine sovereignty in human salvation) in this way. But actually, there is I think a slight confusion here. When you ask “what does God do” and “what does man do,” you are assuming that if God does something man doesn’t do that thing, and that when man does something God doesn’t do that thing either. I understand you want to say this because you want to protect “monergism,” and to guard against “synergism.” But it should be recognized that this question you are raising of “who does what” — and especially the assumption that divine activity excludes human agency and vice-versa — is not at all the same question as the question of “sovereignty” in salvation.

This is one major reason that you and Augustine disagree. But the important thing to note is that it is a philosophical disagreement about the nature of secondary and primary causality, not an exegetical disagreement about the meaning of some verses from St. Paul. It is, I think, very important to realize this: your philosophical assumptions are different than Augustine’s. That is why you can both believe in divine sovereignty, but why Augustine does not at all think of the “monergism vs. synergism” issue in the way that you do. And — surprise surprise! — it is the philosophical theory, smuggled quietly in and accepted by people without their even realizing it, that is driving the theological and (in large measure) exegetical disagreements.

This, I believe, should be discomforting to people who think that they are going by the “Bible alone,” when really they are going by the Bible-as-understood-through-a-contested-philosophical-theory-which-I-didn’t-even-realize-I-implicitly-accepted-until-just-now. (I bet there is one German word that could replace the entire hyphenated phrase I just gave you!)

Alright, I’m out for now. Peace.

Neal

So, your position, then, is that St. Augustine’s theology was not just false but incoherent? In other words, he affirms a strong view of sovereingty/predestination, and you think it clearly, logically follows just from this starting point that a Lutheran doctrine of imputed righteousness (only) acquired by passive faith (only) must be true — yet Augustine doesn’t accept any of those things, right? So is Augustine just completely theologically and philosophically confused, in your opinion?

Maybe a better question to ask is this: How do your statements here relate to the articles on Augustine I recommended to you above? Do you think that those articles explain how Augustine can at least be consistent, even if [as you believe] he is wrong?

Maybe a better, better question to (re-)ask is this: Can you provide the argument which begins with divine sovereignty or double-predestination and concludes with Luther’s sola fide (or something like it)? Or, alternatively, can you provide the argument that begins with justification sola fide and concludes with double-predestination? I can pretty easily imagine an argument that begins with the thesis that justifying faith is ‘passive’ and that individuals are purely ‘receptive’ in the initial acquisition of such faith, to the conclusion of predestination-of-the-elect. But such an argument could not serve to demonstrate the doctrine of “double-predestination,” understood, as you said above, that both election and reprobation are “the same positive acts” brought about by God. At most, you’d get God doing something to the elect (so as to justify and regenerate them, etc.), and doing nothing (or nothing analogous) with the reprobate, but merely “passing over” them.

Can you help lay out your train of thought and the logical entailments you believe to exist between these concepts a little more clearly?

Neal

[PS: I should mention that I am aware of how Calvinists view a Wesleyan sort of justification "by faith alone" (though Wesley himself looks to have rejected that doctrine), or an "Arminian" sort of justification by faith alone, as being inconsistent or strange. The argument is something like this: "Look, those Arminians don't believe in predestination, they think they're making the "good choice" -- if not all by themselves, then at least for themselves -- and deciding to have faith in God; as if they weren't dead in sin anyway! But, however that may be, as soon as you allow your own free choices to be the thing that makes the differences, now you are "adding" something of your own -- "works!" -- into the equation, and so you've really just given up justification by faith alone." Again, I know of this standard line argument that sola gratia and sola fide and Calvinist predestinarianism are all bound up with one another. But this just isn't what we're talking about when we are talking about Augustine or Aquinas (or....). Remember, we aren't in the 2-Category world of "Calvinist-or-Arminian," least of all here.]

For clarity sake, I’ll want to make sure we are talking about sovereignty only as it relates to salvation, you know *what does God do* and *what does man do*. In the question about Gottschalk having derived his doctrines from his view of sovereignty or reverse, I would suggest that it makes no difference since I believe that it is a necessary logical order whether in reverse or forward. Maybe I’ll get schooled in logic, I dont know, but this seems to be done all the time[arguing backwards toward premises from conclusions to see if there are sound reasons].

From what I read so far, Gottschalk was declared “heretical” and punished for his views on predestination, of the just AND the reprobate. I’m not sure if he argued forensically or not as yet, but I dont see any way that he couldn’t have as of this point in time. What is the comment about the trinitarian view referring to? It must’ve been less of a concern at the time-I have seen no mention yet of his view on that. I did see some tidbits of his thoughts on the real presence in the Lords Supper/Mass that seemed within orthodoxy[at least he was thinking on this prior to Aquinas and the Aristotelian view of nature and essences that led to the formal Roman view as it's known today]. I wonder how one could get close on that and be in serious error on the Trinity.

Anyway, the challenge remains unmet but it’s important enough to investigate. So I’m still here.