By all Your saints still striving, for all Your saints at rest,
Your holy Name, O Jesus, forevermore be blessed.
You rose our King victorious, that they might wear the crown,
And ever shine in splendor, reflected from Your throne.

Then let us praise the Father, and worship God the Son,
And sing to God the Spirit, Eternal Three in One,
Till all the ransomed number, who stand before the throne,
Ascribe all power and glory and praise to God alone!

Not only did this hymn get the orientation right, but it was even sung to the tune of “All Glory Laud and Honor” — which certainly helped drive home the point!

That is to say, He is generous to give away His glory and His holiness and all His other gifts. The thing that gets under His skin, so to speak, is when someone tries to usurp His rightful position.

So the praise accorded to Our Lady and the other saints is glory that God has given them.

As we say so often in the Byzantine Divine Liturgy, “Thee who we glorify in thy saints/ Save us who sing to Thee/ Alleluia”

This is sung on weekdays after the Troparia, which typically commemorates the saints remembered on that day. The implication being that by glorifying God’s holy ones who have proved themselves in their life on earth, we glorify God.

Thus, the saints are not stealing glory from God when they are praised, but receiving and redirecting glory to God, who made them saints in the first place.

You may be interested in taking a glance at Max Thurian’s book, Mary, Mother of All Christians (if you can get hold of it). It was written prior to Thurian’s very late-in-life entry into the Catholic Church, and he wrote it as a Reformed Christian. It contains discussions of what the Magisterial Reformers, as well as 2nd and 3rd generation Reformed thinkers, thought about Mary and what we’d cal the Marian dogmas today. They were fairly traditional (especially Luther) and seemingly fairly devoted as well, some of them saying very beautiful things about the Blessed Virgin. This is something we’ve unfortunately got away from, maybe by way of reaction against perceived Mariolatry, but there’s certainly nothing in the Reformed tradition that would require people to just ignore her in the way she’s typically been.

All best,

Neal

Yeah, RTS in D.C. is still at the Youth House at McLean Pres. Small world Jonathan. I’m looking forward to a “Church and World” class this June which Michael Horton is teaching. I considered transfering to Christendom for a while, but I have made the decision to finish my degree (now just an M.A.R) at RTS. If and when I convert to the Catholic Church, I want to be as sure as possible about what I’m doing. My Professors all know where I’m at though and I’m reading anything they’re willing to give me in order to convince me to stay away from Rome. Kind of ironic two of my Professors are finishing their PH.D’s at Catholic! Thanks again, Jeremy Tate

That was excellent. Well thought out, yet simple and accessible. I have been reading bits of the E.O.C.s “Philokalia” which seems to focus on this issue to a great degree. The Orthodox call this “Deification” or being united to the person of God. The Glory of God shared and infused into the human life. Indeed, I think that when this occurs the human is MORE human than ever… or perhaps better put – becomes a complete human when unified to the God of the universe. As I understand it, this view was maintained by Aquinas… but I could be wrong. I may have gone on a slight bunny trail here, so do forgive me, I just drew a parallel.

In the Peace and Love of Christ,
-g-

God’s blessings and grace on your pilgrimage,
Jonathan

Good question, and that is basically my understanding too (though I’m more intrigued by Calvin’s similarities than Luther’s). A quick googling gives the likes of this from Luther:

“It is a sweet and pious belief that the infusion of Mary’s soul was effected without original sin; so that in the very infusion of her soul she was also purified from original sin and adorned with God’s gifts, receiving a pure soul infused by God; thus from the first moment she began to live she was free from all sin” (Sermon: “On the Day of the Conception of the Mother of God,” 1527).”

But more importantly, even if Calvin and Luther were adherents to what is also the Catholic teachings on Mary, what would it tell us? That’s what I’ve been trying to piece through. It seems that either their Scriptural interpretation was clouded by proximity to Catholic thought (cf. the Baptist critique of paedobaptism), or they were comfortable with things about Mary properly derivable from Scripture and we have (for some reason) become uncomfortable with them since. Much to ponder!

Peace in Christ,
Tom

You put it very well. As St. Irenaeus said, the glory of God is man fully alive.